Tuesday 25 March 2008

In response to: The "PC"-fication of Tango

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

heh heh heh

Although I think the devil/angel also sits on women's shoulders, who are like "Lead me! Oh, Wait! I can lead myself!"

La Nuit Blanche said...

i love this! bravo!

many leaders do seem to have a wishy-washy embrace... fragile lead... shaky spider hands with which they don't seem to know what to do... many times, i have wished for a fully-fledged energetic leader to dance with, who is not afraid to, well, LEAD.

that is when i usually start looking up at the ceiling and thinking about how i should separate my laundry when i get back home... :-D

Supantheress said...

Hahaha.... Agree agree. I think you have re-clarified the roles. Firm leading sooooo required, indeed.

Do you think that some people think 'rules are there to be broken (or evolved...)'? Do you think that some people think if rules are not changed (as in if people just stick to the traditional roles) then things don't move forward so they feel they have to bring this "followers empowerment" movement? Because I think that some people feel if they don't challenge the tradition or archetype, then they are not thinking or being clever, and that they don't want to be like the rest of the flock of sheep...

I personally find that rules (maybe this is too strong a word - feel free to replace this with a word more appropriate) make things clear and if they work, then they work, and they maintain order and minimise chaos...

Limerick Tango said...

@Supantheress: I think the word you are looking for is Structures.

I honestly don't know what motivates the "followers empowerment" movement... apart from perhaps two rather undocumented factors. One, the lack of patience to spend the forty days and nights in the wilderness required to become a good follower/tango dancer, and two, heavily adorned tango done really well looks fantastic and they want those golden baroque cathedrals without having to start with mud huts.

Anonymous said...

I think it's human nature to:

1. Want to build a better mousetrap;
2. Figure out a way to do it with less effort.
3. Feel that rules were made to be broken.

The bottom line is that Tango is hard. Very hard. And it is very hard because it is very, very complex. A lot of very subtle information need to be transfered at lightning speed between two people who may never have met before they embraced. Thus, pursuant to Point # 2 above, there is a tendency for some to try to achieve the "look" of tango without actually being able to do it.

As for the "follower's empowerment" movement (priceless, supantheress!)... This sort of thinking comes from a perceived "lack of equality" between the two roles.

Personally, I think following is at least as (if not more) challenging as leading; leading is mechanical, following is intellectual. Although the lead (usually) knows what the movement is, the follow must receive it, interpret it, and execute it (creatively!) - as close to instantaneously as possible.

Why anyone who does this does not feel empowered by the skill required is beyond me.

Limerick Tango said...

@Johanna: I'll have to disagree with you there, tango is very hard because it is very, very simple. The mistake many people make is thinking that the words simple and easy mean the same thing, if they did why have two words for the same thing. It is very difficult to make ones movement simple, to strip out the unnecessary, we are over-evolved apes and at times we still want to be rolling across the plains.

I once made the joke that Women follow because Men are no good at reading minds, unfortunately I was dancing with a member of the "followers empowerment" movement at the time and she didn't get the humour of it at all.

Anonymous said...

Well, I DON'T disagree with you, Limerick :-)

Sometimes it's hard to express these thoughts - I agree that less is more. It is a very simple process (exchange of information) which is NOT "easy" to do well. Which is why so many seek to change it (read: make it easier).

To wit: a lot of folks eschew "walking" because it is too "hard". The reason it's hard is because the simplicity of it isn't masked with a frenzy of embellishments to cover up bad form.

Supantheress said...

Hi Everyone! :-)

(I'm in a good mood 'cos it's sunny in England!!)

Johanna, I'm not sure if you can simply (:P) conclude, "leading is mechanical, following is intellectual". Because I have started learning how to lead recently and I re-realise that it requires a lot of quick-and-deep-thinking. On the other hand, I tell my partner, who is a leader but has started learning to follow recently (it is a very good way to see what happens on the other side of the table!!), to stop thinking. As soon as he starts thinking he guesses what I am going to do. Once he stopped thinking and just started 'feeling' then he became much better. Acute and sensitive perceptivity is perhaps what's required in a good follower, with intelligence, of course.

'Mechanical' sounds like the leader is being robbotic...?

Mr Limerick, yes, 'structures' sounds good. Thanks!

I have another question for you, folks. Somebody in the past mentioned that they weren't happy about the fact that followers weren't given enough instruction in classes (this isn't just one place, I think this tends to happen in many tango schools in UK) and that most instruction is given to leaders, and the followers are always expected to just 'follow'.

What do you think?

Anonymous said...

Supanthress - I meant those words in terms of opposites: inner/outer, mental/physical, control/surrender, etc. Yes, "mechanical" does sound robotic, but I meant it in terms of the lead having to provide information that gives the follow an indication of which direction to go. This is "mechanics".

By "intellectual" I meant inner, spiritual, not necessarily "thinking" (which definitely gets in the way of listening and following).

I tend to keep classifications simple (as in either/or) to facilitate clarification. This need to "soften" or expand, or "grey-ify" each role is, in my eyes, partly the result of the "follower's empowerment" movement. But for the discussion of lead and follow,they simply fall into opposite categories.

Of course, NOTHING in life is actually black and white - everything is shades of gray :-)

msHedgehog said...

I agree it is very common for teachers to ignore the followers completely and give them no instruction, very little feedback, and nothing to work with - especially in cases where the class is challenging for most of the leaders present. My approach is to go to every class with my own plan to pay an hour's attention to some aspect of my own technique, within whatever happens to be taught. If something interesting turns up then I drop that and start paying attention.

msHedgehog said...

I have heard that some men don't like dancing with women who lead - perhaps they don't realise how easy it is to switch roles a hundred times a day, something women are trained from birth to do - and some women get fed up with role-playing and overlook the possibilities for self-expression when you put your mind to a challenging one.

Limerick Tango said...

Zeesh! People get away with running classes like that?
In any class that I've ever organised if a difficult week for the leaders isn't balanced with an interesting week for the ladies the natives get restless very quickly.

koolricky said...

Unfortunatlely, LimerickTango, such classes do exist, and they are probably more common than the ones where the same amount of info should be given to both genders. I was lucky enough not to br brought up in those kind of classes!